HELP!!!! Need Dongguan China experience information.....

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Permalink Reply by Michael on January 23, 2008 at 10:25pm

First I have to ask, which part of Dongguan will you be in? Dongguan is a big place but the majority of expats are in only a few areas.

1) I can't really answer as I'm here on my own dime.
2) There are many expats in Dongguan from all over the world. Mostly coming from America, German, Brazil and Italy. I'm sure there are others as well, but that's what I've noticed.
3) The food isn't bad at all... depending on where you go and what your tastes are.
4) What types of things would you like to see? Tourist spots like temples and historical things or more western centric shopping and dining?

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Permalink Reply by Ben Masterson on January 23, 2008 at 11:15pm

Michael,
Thanks for the response. I will be over in China for the month of March to understand if I could live out there for a 2 year assignment. As far as area of Dongguan here is the address of our plant I am sure it means more to you than me: San Shin QingXiZhentu Dongguan City.

Here are some more specific questions that you may be able to help with.
1) Where is the recommended area to live? I have read about New World Garden (both positive and negatives). I also saw the names Moon Bay, Walmart Area, and IEO City Walk but no details.
2) How is communication? Are there enough people who understand English to get by or is it extremely tedious. I will have a translater at the factory.
3) How is transportation? I heard driving over there is a big no no, and I may have the opportunity to have a driver for business purposes. Is there a good public transportation system and cabs? Are they safe? Can you get around by public transportation without knowing Chinese?
4) As far as things to see, I would like to check out some tourist sights. I really want to check out some of the expats favorite hang outs to see what it would be like living over there and where I can unwind and relax.
5) I have ambitions of learning Mandrin while I am there. I currently purchased the Roseeta Stone software but wanted to take language classes while in China. Are evenign language classes available? Have you taken any classes while there? How difficult of a language is it to pick up?

That is all for now but I am sure I will have many more questions. If I become too much of a pain just let me know.

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Permalink Reply by Thomas on January 24, 2008 at 11:41am

Ben,

let me try and answer some of your questions (if I can):
1) It depends on your budget. I think the BEST and NEWEST area to live at, is IEO City Walk but the question is, does your budget cover it? Other places offer apartments only while New World Garden for example do have houses with garden to offer.
2) No, especially in DG there are not a lot of people that speak English (In Guangzhou and Shenzhen you might find more of them). Around New World Garden, Moon Bay and the other areas where we Expats live, you find some shops, bars and restaurants that cater to the Expat community. Occasionally you might find somebody on the street or in Starbucks that will approach you with a friendly “hello” and ask you if it is ok if they practice their English with you 
3) Taxis are quite cheap and affordable (but no, they are anything else then safe or comfortable). Tell your friends / colleagues / business partners to send you the address of the places you have to go to in Chinese and show them to the cab drivers.
If you want to drive a car, you have to pass the Chinese drivers license. HERE DG (the English speaking magazine for DG – www.heredg.com) had a recent issue dedicated to only this one. But in general, driving on your own or taking the public transport (which is not very well developed yet) is a risky thing as you would not be able to read the road signs and see where you are / going to. And the drivers on the bus certainly do not know how to speak English.
4) Go to the Forum section about bars on this site. There you can see and discuss about where we Expats unwind and relax. Hit (for example) the bar street around the New World Garden with your friends and colleagues or alone and be sure to meet a bunch of us over there.
Tourist sights? I know a few in Beijing, Yunnan and some other places. Maybe we can open a new Forum to discuss tourists sites in Guangdong (sorry but I fear that there are not that many tourist sites here)?
Join one of the social clubs to meet other foreigners, play Golf, Touch Rugby or other sports, keep fit and healthy and get to know other people faster. Andre already started a Forum section about Sports, which might be a good place to discuss this further
5) Sorry, I don’t want to start the discussion about Mandarin learning here. The forum group “New Concept Mandarin” might be a better place for it (but just quickly, yes evening courses are widely available, I took 4 years of Mandarin and I thought it was rather easy to pick up Mandarin)
Hope I could help a bit
See you soon on the bar street :)

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Permalink Reply by Marcus on January 26, 2008 at 7:13am

It is not that bad to live in Dongguan, but you definitely want to ask for a decent compensation before you come. Generally, an American will get around $ 3,000 - 7,000.00 each month for housing allowance and hardship allowance.
To begin with, you may want to look at Dongguan city to live in unless your factory is way out.
Food is rather OK in China now, does not have to bother about the news. They even have fine restauratn here.

Must see, plenty. Depends on who you are with and what you are on. Contact me for information.

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Permalink Reply by Chen Zhen on February 14, 2008 at 7:12pm

Hi Ben,

have you come over DongGuan take around and look? I am from Hong Kong and just worked in DongGuan for half year. what I recommend is you must stay here for some days and look around everything see if you are suitable to live in this place, NOT only you but maybe your family if you bring them over here also. Actually my family is not quite suit these place as the environment, like pollution, is not good for them.

Hope you have your decision soon, I work as IT director so if you have something need for consultation, Im happy to discuss with you too

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Permalink Reply by Chris on July 12, 2008 at 12:28pm

Hi Ben,

I`m a freelance male interpreter and tour guide based in Guangdong and specialized in business comunication and travel arrangements. Before that, I have had experience working full time in such fields as international trade, sourcing, production and industrial engineering, quality control, hotel management as well as English and Chinese teaching. In the past few years, I have worked with customers from the UK, the US, Australia, the EU and other countries. I speak fluent, standard English without accent.

If you need an interpreter or tour guide while you are working, doing business, attending fairs or travelling in China. You can count on me. I'm available to work in Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Dongguan, Zhongshan, Zhuhai, Kaiping, Shunde, Foshan, Huizhou, Jiangmen, Taishan, Hong Kong and Macau and all other China destinations. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year! I`m looking forward to any enquiry at any time!

Email: christing0357@yahoo.com.cn
Cell Phone: (86)13539098812

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Permalink Reply by cuimengs on January 8, 2009 at 10:08am

 How were the Chinese Characters created?
去*（qù）*

"去"是一个象形字------它描摹的是一个带有盖子的空容器的形状：字的下半部分指代的是空容器"厶"；字的下半部分指代的是盖子"土"。它最初的意思指的是移走容器的盖子和容器中的物品，后来引申为"离开，走"。


Here, "去" is a pictograph, which symbolizes an empty vessel "厶" with a cover "土" upon it. Its original meaning refers to the removal of the cover and contents of the vessel. By extension, it further means "leave, go" now.


休*（xiū）*

"休"是一个会意字------"亻"是"人"字的变形，"木"表示一棵树，"休"字则表现出人靠在树上休息的样子，而其实际含义就引申为"停止，休息"。


Here, "休" is the compound ideogram, i.e. a combination of two ideograms to denote its meaning. While "亻" refers to a man, "木" refers to a tree. Accordingly, the character shows a vivid picture of a man resting against a tree, which just means "stop, rest" in English.
 Chinese Appellations
中国人的称谓很复杂，同事之间可以称职务，如"麦总，刘经理"等，熟人之间可以直呼其名，或者在姓的前面加上"老，小"来称呼，如："老王，小王"等。比较正式的场合对不熟悉的人一般可以称"先生，女士，太太，小姐"等。
The Chinese system of names and titles is by and large complicated. Titles may be used to address each other among one's colleagues, e.g. "màizǒng and Liú Jīnglǐ". For acquaintances personal names and surnames may be preceded by "lǎo"(old) or "xiǎo"(young). Formal patterns of address include "xiānsheng"(mister,Sir). "nǚshì"(Ms or Mrs), "tàitai"(madam or Mrs) and "xiǎojie"(miss).
For example: colleagues greet to each other: Good morning, Wang Jingli!
同事之间打招呼：王经理，早上好！
Conversation between acquaintances：Xiao Li，pass me that cup of tea.
熟人之间对话：小王，递给我那杯茶。
Formal pattern：The waiter opened the hotel door and said, come in, please, Miss.
正式场合：侍者打开酒店的门说：小姐，请进！

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Permalink Reply by Mary on February 5, 2009 at 2:06pm

Hi Ben,

I've been grinning while reading the replies you've recieved. You will discover everyone loves to hate Dongguan! Then again we spent two years living in Shenzhen and everyone from Hong Kong was horrified because Shenzhen was so terrible, the worst place in China..... Next my husband took a job in Dongguan and guess what? All we heard was Dongguan was the worst place in China to live, pollution, crime, etc., etc.

So on a little more positive note: Dongguan is actually a pleasant place to live, at least in Dongcheng where most of the expats are living. You do have to follow some simple safety rules that you would follow in any large cities - a) don't walk down alley ways alone at night b) don't flash large sums of money; c) even in China if the deal seems to be good to be true, it usually is d) If you are going to pay super discount prices for things you have to believe that sometimes they won't work. Most times they do but on occasion you get ripped off (Can you say buying on the street in Chicago or NY?).

Peter and I have been here for a year and I find most locals are very friendly, they attempt to understand you and you just have to learn to be patient. You won't have a lot of long stimulating conversation with the locals at first but you will be amazed how pleased you will be with yourself the first time you make it where you want to go while giving directions in Mandarin or the first time you order something.

Dongguan is a huge city but much like living in a small town. You will develop relationships with owners of local stores, bars, markets and resturaunts, etc which you use regularly and those people will treat you well. You know you are part of the community when the chinese store vendors start pulling their good products from behind the counter for you. All it takes is patience and time.

As for places to live, I find New Century Villas which is across from New World Gardens is wonderful. The apartments are large and roomy, the security is excellent, the gardens are lovely and it backs onto the huge Qi Feng Park. We moved here last April and we really like it. If you have a pet make sure the complex you move into allows them. We have a dog and were informed New World Gardens has a rule against them.

If you are a little adventurous there a lot of places to eat in this area. You can get western, Thai, Chinese (obviously), Japanese, etc. Most places are excellent. McDonalds, Starbucks, and KFC are all over the place and we just got a Subway sandwich shop. With that said, you can also find the scary stuff like chicken heads, chicken feet, and other strange body parts :) Watch out for the Beijou - local alcohol, it tastes like kerosene and is incredibly potent. The Chinese love it. Most westerners only find it amusing when they are suckering newbies into drinking it. Almost everyone has a "my first round of beijou story!"

Not sure what I can help with but always willing to try.

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Permalink Reply by Ammi Nutz on March 2, 2009 at 10:57pm

If you are single, it's not bad. You will learn how to enjoy it. If you have a family, well, good luck. I hope they are flexible and tolerant. You are lucky that your company hasn't done this before. Make out to them that it is an EXTREME hardship for you and get all you can!! Expat packages are not nearly as good as they used to be, but then Dongguan is not Shanghai either. You should have a budget enough to live in the best area in a decent size apartment. You MUST have a company car and driver. It is too dangerous to drive yourself, not to mention that if you are running the company's manufacturing, you must look the part !! If you show up at your factory from a bus or taxi, they will assume you are not important and will not take you seriously (see the chapter on "Face" in any Living in China book). Make sure they understand that you need to be in China legally and all that entails, including paying local taxes, which they should pay for you. Get them to hire a local accountant/business registration company to make sure you ARE legal. Make sure they pay for at least one home leave and possibly one regional holiday (to Thailand preferably !). You need a 3-4 weeks of time off. They should pay for your US tax preparation as well since it gets more complicated living overseas. You should get tax equalization (look that up on Google or something). They should pay for a maid (it's too cheap not to). Make sure your health insurance is good overseas. Probably best to get a special overseas package with emergency evacuation. If you are leaving a house in the US they might pay for upkeep or renting it out, or for storage of your goods while you are gone. And keep in mind that you will be paying for everything in Chinese Yuan, which your lovely government is pressing to become more and more expensive, so you may want some exchange rate protection in your package. These are all things that will allow you to do your job the best you can without worrying about living your life. Some other things that used to be standard like hardship pay, club memberships, language lessons, etc. may be lower on your list nice-to-haves, but better make sure you get the need-to-haves first. If you think i'm going a bit overboard, maybe i am, but you are the top representative of your company, not an English teacher. Check out www.us-expatriate-handbook.com/chpt7.htm. It gives you all the same ideas and more.

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Permalink Reply by Uncle Bob on March 3, 2009 at 9:54am

USD 7000 for hardship allowance? Hardship allowance at all? Are you guys living in the same Dongguan I am, the one between Guangzhou and ShenZhen?

Thing is your "Dongguan Experience" can vary, depending on what you make of it. First question is if you have children, and how you want them schooled. Even different options for that, from total foreign run schools to local education, and I know some expats that send their kids to local school, and some that use foreign schools exclusively. On that I can't speak from personal experience.

I wouldn't classify Dongguan as a hardship posting these days, you can get great groceries, good meals, good drink and good times fairly cheap. Ok, maybe the drink not so cheap, some places tend to gouge a bit, (and you know who you are) and the expat groceries tend to be expensive. But if you don't insist on living in a huge villa in the best place, you can live very comfortably on 15,000 RMB a month including rent/groceries and utilities. If you stay away from foreign packaged food and go the fresh prepared route, groceries can be darn cheap. I will say the quality of the groceries in Dongguan and Guangdong by far is superior to other areas of China, as Cantonese insist on good quality fresh groceries.

I guess I've been here too long but last trip back to U.S. I couldn't stand the "chain restaurant" food. Too many preservatives, etc. And packaged food tastes more like the package it came in than the food it was supposed to taste like. These are the real hazards of living here, if you get used to it the home country, well, isn't so home any more.

Now the getting around part, I wouldn't suggest the buses, it seems they pick from the worst taxi drivers and make them bus drivers here. Even saw one city bus driver taking a pull from a "bong" at a stop light once. Usually they are the ones that have the most disregard for traffic laws, and I'm not to sure the equipment is all that safe.

Taxi's vary remember they are independent operators, look for the newer light green taxi's. Avoid any red taxi's at all cost.

Driving, well, not all that bad if you pay attention and drive defensively. At least Donguan doens't ahve the large amounts of motorcyles/scooters running around that some other cities have. Road signs are in Chinese/English in Guangdong, except every once in a while they just do Chinese. Learn the characthers for Donguan, Guanzhou, Dongcheng, small car, Truck, entrance and Exit, and you have about 90 percent of non english road signs covered. I've driven most of Guangdong, and up to Fuzhou a few times with no major issues. You can get an inexpensive portable GPS that has the roads and places marked in Pinyin. Also point to point routing. With english instructions and voice. Helps a lot, especially in places like Guangzhou.

For business, I'd agree if you're not driving yourself, try and get a private car. Do not take taxi's to the factory, not only is it a "face" thing but when you leave the factory, you may not be able to get a taxi to get out of the area. And factories tend to be not in the best places for a foreigner to be walking around carrying a laptop bag. More of a security issue than anything else. Also, if you're job involves visiting a lot of factories and you're going to spend a lot of time on the road, you can catch a nap or two. You tend to work long days here, so a 10 minute nap is a good break and re-charger.

And, that's my 10 cents worth. My story and I'm sticking to it.

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Permalink Reply by nitro mike on March 3, 2009 at 3:17pm

Judging from your questions this is not going to be the place for you. It sounds to me like you want to live in America when you arrive here in China.This is not the USA it is CHINA. I for one can hardly stand the expat communities . I love to hang out at the dark alleys and see the real China not the Americanized version. If you have the balls come on over and jump in the waters is fine (just dont drink it). Immerse yourself in a new life and a new culture and forget about what your life is back home. You had some questions about safety. I have walked every street in Dongguan Shenzhen and Guanzhou without fear I see you are wearing a Michigan Shirt, I would not even think of doing that in Detroit or Flint. If your single youll probably never want to leave here , I know I dont ever want to leave. 7k usd a month you say ?You will be able to live in a palace here if thats what you want,My 2 bedroom condo is super safe and costs me about 250 usd a month in the Nancheng district. Better yet stay in Michigan I want China for myself there are already too many Yankees here.

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Permalink Reply by Uncle Bob on March 3, 2009 at 4:52pm

Don't drink the water? You ever lived in L.A.? The city water here better shape than L.A.'s tap water any day.

Once your system gets used to it...

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